Hardwood - Discussion Forum: Fouls

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date

#18420	04/27/2022 8:59:02 am	Mar 6th, 2025
dino_2000_22 Joined: 04/17/2019 Posts: 51 Wisconsin Lutheran Warriors V.15	Apologies for the over exaggeration.... The conference as a hole was a 1.70 to 1 FT Ratio. 5 of 8 games were 1.75 to 1 or higher. Feel free to go through other conference games as well and you will see a trend. The discrepancy of all regular season games played in the conference on a daily basis was closer to 1.20. So why the drastic difference all on one day? Sure my pressure was high, but it has been the same all year and I average 16 fouls per game. All of the sudden I am fouling their SG from 18 feet out all game? I understand if the fouls were under the basket, but just random fouls from mid range jumpers....nah man pressure is not the problem Even your conference as a hole had a 1.72 to 1 FT Ratio. With 6 out of 8 games having a 1.6 to 1 FT ratio. Which once again is an unheard of number on a daily basis. 1 foul inside (legit), 2 mid range fouls (1 legit 1 a reach in?), and 3 off ball fouls ( Tripping? )against a SG....leads to 12 Free Throws. Updated Wednesday, April 27 2022 @ 9:05:03 am PDT

#18423	04/27/2022 3:38:26 pm	Mar 7th, 2025
Slickandjake Joined: 03/21/2021 Posts: 193 Inactive	First, I am not checking your math/data and just assume you are correct. However, you are taking a small sample size of 8 games and comparing to 240 conference games. This is not enough sample size to say something is wrong. Second, the best teams are playing the worst teams, so I would actually expect the foul ratios to be a little more skewed the first round on average. Lastly, your original assertion was the sim is broken. In order to say this, you need to compare it to some standard, which I assume is real life NCAA basketball. So get data from this standard and compare it to the HW sim so there is something that could be examined and possibly fixed. Taking a one game sample as you are doing and saying the whole game is broken because there is no way it can happen, well that is just false. There are real life games where PF and FTA ratios are close to your game, and I found it several times just looking at three teams this past NCAA season. I get you are upset with the FTA being skewed in the game. I have had very lopsided FTA margin against as well. I have also been frustrated with my favorite NCAA team having this happen to them in real life too, typically because the team played poorly, if I am setting aside my bias. But to complain the game is broken is just coming off as sour gbeeps to me, especially in light of the exaggeration and lack of any data comparing to real life games.

#18424	04/27/2022 3:56:55 pm	Mar 7th, 2025
Slickandjake Joined: 03/21/2021 Posts: 193 Inactive	First, I am not checking your math/data and just assume you are correct. However, you are taking a small sample size of 8 games and comparing to 240 conference games. This is not enough sample size to say something is wrong. Second, the best teams are playing the worst teams, so I would actually expect the foul ratios to be a little more skewed the first round on average. Lastly, your original assertion was the sim is broken. In order to say this, you need to compare it to some standard, which I assume is real life NCAA basketball. So get data from this standard and compare it to the HW sim so there is something that could be examined and possibly fixed. Taking a one game sample as you are doing and saying the whole game is broken because there is no way it can happen, well that is just false. There are real life games where PF and FTA ratios are close to your game, and I found it several times just looking at three teams this past NCAA season. I get you are upset with the FTA being skewed in the game. I have had very lopsided FTA margin against as well. I have also been frustrated with my favorite NCAA team having this happen to them in real life too, typically because the team played poorly, if I am setting aside my bias. But to complain the game is broken is just coming off as sour gbeeps to me, especially in light of the exaggeration and lack of any data comparing to real life games.

#18434	04/28/2022 10:25:44 am	Mar 8th, 2025
MuchoMaas Joined: 08/10/2021 Posts: 19 High Point Panthers II.1	I just had a 28 to 8 disparity. Go ahead. Check out my team. I was playing someone who pressed most (77%) of the game, I have very good defensive ratings. +20 FT deficit. I even played "i" one half. So maybe there is a rationalization for this, sure, maybe but IT'S A BAD ONE. Basketball shouldn't look like this week-in, week-out. It feels like if this is meant to replicate college basketball it wouldn't have disparities that would be the 2nd most in any NCAA tournament happening every week. I resent somebody with a different opinion dismissing what for anyone that has played this game for a while, is a clear and obvious deficiency. As was clear in the post quoting the NCAA tournament anything over +15 is pretty steep outlier, and that happens FREQUENTLY. But I guess this isn't the place to complain about issues with the game. GO FIGURE Updated Thursday, April 28 2022 @ 10:45:13 am PDT Updated Thursday, April 28 2022 @ 10:47:01 am PDT

#18437	04/28/2022 10:41:09 am	Mar 8th, 2025
Coriolanus Joined: 01/16/2022 Posts: 6 Missouri-Kansas City Kangaroos V.9	For some reasons it posted a different link https://hookemheadlines.com/2022/03/20/texas-basketball-falls-to-purdue-thanks-to-46-free-throw-attempts/ FT Discrepancies in the tourney so far: 1 Purdue +34 vs. Texas 2Purdue +21 vs. Yale 3Arkansas +15 vs. NMSU 4Michigan +15 vs. CSU 5Kentucky +14 vs. St. Pete’s 6LSU +13 vs. Iowa State 7Murray State +13 vs. San Francisco — Hook'em Headlines (@HookemHeadlines) March 21, 2022 Purdue’s 46 FTs are third most in a tournament game since 2010. This was also the biggest FT discrepancy of any tournament game in the last decade. I had +26 +32 was the most in ANY tournament in a decade. so like 700 games? and this occurs frequently? Slick you're going to ratify this no matter what so you really don't have anything new or useful to say to me.

#18440	04/28/2022 1:31:51 pm	Mar 8th, 2025
gards710 Joined: 05/17/2020 Posts: 438 Dominican Univ. of California Penguins I.1	Aren't like 500 games simmed a day in this game, at least on non-tourney days? The sheer amount of games here leads to the chance that there is a game that is up there in weirdness, whatever it may be - not just in free throw discrepancy, but other stats too. Anyways, some of you guys seemed determined to stay on your hill, so good luck!

#18441	04/28/2022 1:32:36 pm	Mar 8th, 2025
dino_2000_22 Joined: 04/17/2019 Posts: 51 Wisconsin Lutheran Warriors V.15	Thanks @Mucho....it goes to show that Slick is essentially making stuff up to make himself feel better. But I will lay some knowledge down about FT statistics From 2020 up until today, taking all 358 D1 schools into account. The Average FT attempts per game for any team are 17, the average FT attempts against any team is 17.25. The largest discrepancies are Purdue @ +8.6 Elon @ -9.6 There is 250 total teams that have a discrepancy value less than 3. I am sure you will tell me that it is too much data, but is that not what data is for to make the game more real?

#18442	04/28/2022 1:38:19 pm	Mar 8th, 2025
gards710 Joined: 05/17/2020 Posts: 438 Dominican Univ. of California Penguins I.1	All 3 of your teams literally have free throw discrepancies within +/- 3 on the season

#18443	04/28/2022 6:00:11 pm	Mar 8th, 2025
BradenWoA Joined: 12/02/2018 Posts: 276 Houston Cougars IV.5	I agree with y’all, the game has gotten out of hand. In the last two days in my conference (so quarters and semis), there has been a total FT differential of 130-73. That’s 1.78x as many free throws for the teams with more FTs… There was even a game where it was 25-6 on free throws. TWENTY FIVE TO SIX. That’s over 4x as many as your opponent! Something has changed, this has gotten entirely unrealistic… Wait, false alarm, those stats are from the quarterfinals and semis of the 2022 B1G 10 Tournament. I get that this game can be frustrating sometimes, and to an extend it can be more swingy than real basketball, but that’s the game. We have to remember the goal here isn’t to make the most perfectly accurate NCAAB simulation—it’s to make a fun and engaging game within a college basketball shell. That’s why we have the pyramid structure, and why tiny schools can become giant powerhouses in the game. This isn’t a simulation of college basketball—we’ve built these teams, we manage their tactics, and the discrepancies between levels of player skill and manager skill can create wider swings than in real life, which is an entirely different game. In addition, refs feel no pressure to give “make-up calls” or to keep the foul counts arbitrarily even, the way they sometimes do in real life. Hardwood, as a fake game, has distilled out some of those impurities. I will say that sometimes play-by-play is a bit wonky, so I understand some frustration if you’re trying to deeply analyze that. MuchoMaas—that game looks painful, and I feel for you. I used to play a lot of press, and it was live by the press die by the press. Murray State lived by the press today, and it worked. They had you in transition all game, and that’s where the foul discrepancy came from. It went right for them, and you were the unlucky team on the other end. One last thing, I highly recommend paying attention when Slick and Gards post here. Those two guys know their stuff, and it’s a real opportunity to learn, rather than fight.

#18445	04/29/2022 6:24:46 am	Mar 8th, 2025
Slickandjake Joined: 03/21/2021 Posts: 193 Inactive	Well said Braden, better than I can do. It must be understood I am not trying to attack you guys. I also understand the frustration, I have been on the end of a lopsided FT discrepancy in this game, and lost by a few points. However, I have seen the same thing happen in real life, and recall the Illinois-Marquette game early this past season where Marquette received 31 FTA and Illinois 11 and Marquette won by 1 point. But Illinois played an awful game, and it wasn't the refs fault for making the calls because Illinois couldn't defend an infant that game. They deserved to lose. It happens, and life moves on. I contemplated how to respond to the comment that I made things up to make myself feel better, which was a hilarious ironic statement. However I will just say that my motive was to defend this sim which is a fun game. It is not broken, and the variability seen in this game is also seen in real life, to quite an impressive degree if you actually compare real life stats to the HW stats. I do think scoring is much higher in this game than real life, but frankly I don't care, it is the same for everyone and the challenge is to understand why some teams succeed more than my team and make adjustments to improve my team's chances. That's it, that's the fun of the game. It is simple, yet has many complex layers to it as well and decisions you can make to improve your team and odds of winning. My comments were first and foremost to defend this sim, and now in addition to the data I provided there is also gards and Braden providing you additional data that the initial idea that foul discrepancies are unrealistic in this game and occur at a much higher frequency than the NCAA is questionable and likely wrong. All of the real life data provided to you is from the 2022 season. We don't have to go back to past seasons at all, or even take a deep look to find where this sim compares to real life NCAA games. So if you feel foul discrepancies in this game are wildly off compared to NCAA games, then you need to provide the data from BOTH leagues to provide a proof. And only then can the programmer have something tangible to potentially tweak to bring it in line. But right now put yourself in the programmer's shoes. Out of all your comments what exactly should be changed and based on what data? There is nothing for the programmer, who provides this wonderful game for FREE by the way, to understand how to meet what your expectations are. Believe it or not, I am trying to help you and your enjoyment of the game. If you want to get hung up on foul discrepancies, or in what you believe are stat discrepancies compared to real life, it will most likely only frustrate you. I attempted to provide you a systematic approach as to why the stats might happen as they do and to think about what changes are in your power to potentially change results as best you can, whether it be tactically or in what to look for in recruits. It is your choice, and I am now done spending time on this thread. Updated Friday, April 29 2022 @ 6:25:46 am PDT Updated Friday, April 29 2022 @ 7:15:01 am PDT