Hardwood - Suggestions: Increase Fatigue Effects

Forum >> Suggestions >> Increase Fatigue Effects

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date

#21687	10/29/2024 8:40:29 pm	Nov 2nd, 2041
naph Joined: 02/29/2020 Posts: 597 St. Marys Gaels II.1	http://onlinecollegebasketball.org/statistics/838 http://onlinecollegebasketball.org/statistics/838/2041 Before anyone asks, yes, I asked Bengalman if he was happy for me to use Trine as an example, and he agrees that this needs to be changed. The Problem Teams appear to be able to run essentially 5-man rotations without sufficient penalty to act as a deterrent. I know from talking to Bengalman and his posts on Discord that not only is he attempting to run players for 40 minutes, but he is also playing with the fastest tempo, and maximum pressure defense. If ever players would suffer fatigue penalties, this is the team where you could see it. Consequences 1) Realism. Every game has to determine what level of abstraction it wants. Often there is a trade-off between "realism" and "fun". The real world has more season and career-ending injuries than you see in HW. But that is not fun, and HW doesn't have injuries like that. I think it would be fair to say that the consensus opinion on Discord is that this team building strategy, and the lack of impact that fatigue has in the game is not realistic, to the point that it impacts fun as well. 2) Reduces the enjoyment of other managers. ~40min players will be over-represented in things like All conference selections. Things like All-time records and conference records also become devalued. It also seems like it is a viable strategy for getting promoted. Yes, managers have always had the option of building a more or less lop-sided rosters. A steady distribution of scholarships in each class, or concentrating more scholarships in a group so that they can have a stronger team for a year or two before having some rebuilding seasons. If you have a more "realistic" roster that was building towards a particular season, but miss promotion to a team built like this, its not going to feel good at all. Same goes for your favourite player(s) missing out on awards. 3) Warped Recruiting. If this strategy became prevalent then top players will become more expensive to recruit as low-scholarship teams can afford to spend more contacts on them and the reward for having top players playing ~40/mins a game will be so large. Managers going "all-in" like this is also likely to have an effect on manager retention. Both those playing more traditionally (for whom recruiting top players will increasingly become out of reach), and those trying, but failing to assemble a super-5. Solutions Whilst having your better player's performance degrade due to fatigue isn't "fun", it appears to be necessary to stop things being "gamed". Players who don't rest and become fatigued should play worse and it should probably be an exponential type of effect. Where someone who is a little fatigued plays a little bit worse, but someone who is very fatigued is very significantly worse, to the point that even a poor, but fresh bench player is a better alternative. A nice side effect to fatigue having a greater impact would be that the stamina attribute would become more-relevant/valuable than it has been historically. Concluding Remarks Maybe this strategy will be too unreliable to win you a national championship. The wrong player fouling out or getting injured does expose an underdeveloped bench. However, it does appear to be a good path for getting promoted as things currently stand. What do other people think? Is this a valid strategy you want to see continue to be viable in the game? Or is it something you would like to see changed? Updated Tuesday, October 29 2024 @ 11:09:48 pm PDT

#21688	10/29/2024 9:25:16 pm	Nov 2nd, 2041
Dytrea123 Joined: 04/23/2022 Posts: 10 Trine Thunder III.4	This Trine guy sucks, he doesn't know real basketball. What is this to him, a game? In all seriousness what I'm doing should not win games. I agree with Naph that it should be exponential in how players' play degrade.

#21689	10/29/2024 9:43:33 pm	Nov 2nd, 2041
gards710 Joined: 05/17/2020 Posts: 450 Dominican Univ. of California Penguins I.1	Overall, I'm in agreement with the posts. I've seen the strategy run to varying degrees of success and Trine seems to have had the most I've ever seen. So I'm not saying it's not a viable strategy to try to win games or win a conference. We do see it in real life (Grinnell) with some programs and it has success. I like that in Hardwood, there are many ways to win a game/have a good team. I don't think you can just get rid of a strategy. But right now, how things are, it does seem like this could be game breaking. It seems that fatigue does not have as big of an effect as some expect it to - both in game in terms of effectiveness and afterwards in terms of injuries. We've seen teams with worse consistent injury "luck" who play at normal pace and depth of the roster than teams that play like Trine. I agree that the effects of fatigue should be exponential in a game and I think fatigue should impact injury chances more than it appears to as well.

#21690	10/30/2024 12:46:46 am	Nov 2nd, 2041
Stromstar Joined: 09/05/2022 Posts: 29 Xavier Musketeers I.1	💯

#21691	10/30/2024 4:00:25 am	Nov 2nd, 2041
Frankebasta Joined: 02/04/2018 Posts: 59 Rice Owls IV.8	I'd like to see injuries happen as a consequence of tiredness in games, instead of random as it is not. Something like: 3 times Heavy Fatigue, or 10 times Light equals to an injury (random lenght). 1. It is realistic: tired players get injured 2. It will stop this kind of 5 men teams 3. It is game friendly: the control on injuries is on to the human manager, not random. Neither here nor in Brokenbat, I understand the purpose of injuries in the pre-season friendlies. It hurts player development, for what?

#21692	10/30/2024 5:43:39 am	Nov 2nd, 2041
El jefe Joined: 07/06/2018 Posts: 693 Temple Owls I.1	There's a number of teams that run short rotations in real life, with Boeheim's Syracuse teams jumping to mind in particular. They routinely had 3+ guys playing 35-38mpg. However, they didn't play fast, didn't press a whole lot, and almost exclusively played zone - all things that conserve energy. Boeheim would also run them into the ground to build stamina in practice. So the 35-40mpg can be plausible, but almost definitely not in the "Trine Extreme" scenario we're talking about where all the guys have single digit or low double digit stamina......you would need Super Soldiers to keep that performance level up.

#21693	10/30/2024 9:35:21 am	Nov 2nd, 2041
Hayseed Joined: 04/05/2019 Posts: 133 Lewis & Clark Pioneers I.1	I hear ya, Frankebasta. I don't have a strong opinion, but I am frustrated that I have 2 significant injuries this season after games to players that played 0 and 1 min in those games. If it were Conf games I would be salty. I appreciate how Steve likes to input some random into the games, but I also wish that we had even more impact with our decisions. I enjoy HW over BB so much because BB seems to be so heavily luck.

#21694	10/31/2024 11:42:07 am	Nov 9th, 2041
BMacG Joined: 03/19/2023 Posts: 21 Rochester Institute of Technology Tigers IV.4	Gards post is pretty much 100% my thoughts on it.