Hardwood - Suggestions: The Redshirting Is Too Damn High

Forum >> Suggestions >> The Redshirting Is Too Damn High

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date

#19587	01/25/2023 9:40:19 am	Feb 9th, 2030
Ced Joined: 02/14/2018 Posts: 455 Indiana Hoosiers IV.5	I was reminded that we are entering season 30 of Hardwood. I have been a bit inactive as a President and wanted to see what tactics are being used to build up a successful program. I am not that good at this game, so I began a study. Redshirting is for rare situations. The amount of redshirting in Hardwood is much higher than in real life college basketball. And much higher than in real life college football. In fact, looking at current Legends numbers, it seems like the most used strategy available is to redshirt nearly the entire roster. Excluding current rostered, first-year Freshman (who we don't know yet about their decision to redshirt), I ran the numbers for every current team in Legends. This is how many players per team are rostered and have already been redshirted. Many teams have in fact redshirted their entire team. It is not realistic at all in comparison to real life. Remember, the numbers listed below are numbers out of 9-11 available players, excluding the approximately 2 rostered, first-year Freshman to each school. Legends League Redshirting Numbers - Current Season Coe 5 Utah State 7 Lincoln U PA 5 Westfield 6 California 9 (the entire team) Florida Gulf Coast 1 Central Washington 10 (the entire team) Toledo 9 (the entire team) Western Michigan 7 Northern Illinois 9 Huntington 10 (1 short of the entire team) Central Arkansas 7 La Verne 6 Dominican 10 (the entire team) Temple 10 (1 short of the entire team) U of Maine at Farmington 9 (1 short of the entire team) :: Look. The redshirting is too damn high. :: I suggest any of these ideas to be considered for future seasons, and announced in advance so that Presidents can adjust, in no particular order at all: Keep unlimited redshirting available. No change. Flexibility and options have always been built in to Hardwood and Broken Bat which everyone loves and keeps us addicted. More (or none at all) "carefully worded" light from the gamemaster on the statement "Additionally, teams with a history of red shirting highly rated players will also experience diminished recruiting prowess. This is because elite prospects want to play as soon as they arrive on campus and not wait a year to play regularly." from the Game Rules. (Look at the Freshman in current Legends or ANY conference that you want, and hardly any of them are playing.) Even more diminished recruiting prowess from above than is currently in the game. All uncommitted recruits should want to be a starter for four straight years in Hardwood when you think about it. We are told playing time is important in the Game Rules regarding committments, but Presidents (even over the 30 years) are clearly breaking this recruiting promise according to the redshirting numbers. Much less SI player development gains for players who are not receiving playing time and minutes. Make a redshirting year less effective so that there may be strategy at looking at the SI gains at the end of the season. New prospects could be spawned with their much more SI than before, and closer to their POT than the previous 30 years of spawns. No one will like this one, but I'm calling for more injuries! More one game (+1) and two game injuries (personal matters, family leaves and emergencies, stomach bugs, colds, the flu, the players are teenagers unlike in Broken Bat or professional sports, suspensions, who knows) so that all schools actually need a depth chart and actually need a bench. There are not enough injuries and nagging injuries in Hardwood. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2650845-ranking-the-best-redshirt-freshmen-in-college-basketball-in-2016-17 I ask the gamemaster and the Presidents to review the link...Redshirting in college basketball is "RARE", as stated in the article above. It is used in real life for purposes that don't exist (yet) in Hardwood. There is Florida Gulf Coast "rare" and then there is half of the Legends league schools "rare" shown in the current Legends redshirting numbers. And whatever the other 1,000 HW schools are up to with redshirting. But the meta is to redshirt everyone, shown in the numbers, and it is not realistic and not rare. So what are realistic redshirting numbers? I do not know. (Do you know?) But less than what we currently see would be the correct percentage. "The rent is too damn high." (A meme from back in the day.) Again, these can be considered by the gamemaster and community as changes for seasons in the future so that Presidents can adapt. But the numbers are unreal. Hardwood is free! We're thankful. And we want it dialed in. It's just an addicting simulation that we can't stop playing! Thanks for reading. Keep on playing for another 30 seasons!

#19588	01/25/2023 12:02:22 pm	Feb 14th, 2030
El jefe Joined: 07/06/2018 Posts: 686 Temple Owls I.1	I wouldn't mind seeing a redshirt cap of 3 per year and 7 over 3 years, or something like that

#19590	01/25/2023 1:51:14 pm	Feb 14th, 2030
Slickandjake Joined: 03/21/2021 Posts: 193 Inactive	It would be one thing if some could redshirt more than others, but since everyone has that option the current system is not unfair. Sure this isn’t representative of real college basketball, but so are a lot of things in Hardwood. Therefore any change would have to have the benefit of improving gameplay and game experience, otherwise why change if the current system is fair? Does putting limits on the number of red shirts improve gameplay or game experience? If so, how? For me there needs to be a better reason than it isn’t like real life.

#19591	01/25/2023 2:15:12 pm	Feb 14th, 2030
kauffdaddy Joined: 11/30/2020 Posts: 693 Inactive	I don't personally care whatever the redshirting rules are, but I agree with slickandjake about Hardwood not needing to mirror real-life college basketball entirely. If that was the case we'd have NILs, transfer portals, recruiting violations etc. ... and God, please, no to all of that.

#19592	01/25/2023 3:41:28 pm	Feb 14th, 2030
El jefe Joined: 07/06/2018 Posts: 686 Temple Owls I.1	Slick, if there was a cap of 3 per year and 7 over 3, I think that would introduce some strategy into who to redshirt and when....if at all. Also could impact the guys you recruit (e.g., might hesitate to go after that 11 pot big man project if he doesn't fit in your RS plan). Also wouldn't mind more guys generating at higher SI's simultaneously like Ced suggested

#19593	01/25/2023 3:53:31 pm	Feb 14th, 2030
Slickandjake Joined: 03/21/2021 Posts: 193 Inactive	El Jefe I agree your proposal can add some strategy, and I am not against the idea. But I don’t agree with the overall statement that redshirting is too high and that a fix needs to be made. That part of the game is not broken. Could the game be improved/optimized? Well sure it can and that is OK. So try to improve the game. My response was more directed towards the initial premise that redshirting is not good in the game because it doesn’t model reality (much like kaufdaddy’s response). And actually, suggestion #4 where player SI growth is much more dependent on playing time is actually an interesting one I would favor over the limit on redshirts. The redshirt limit adds some complexity which, especially for some of our foreign players, is a confusing and alien concept. But minute management becomes much more important if player SI growth is more linked to playing time. However I don’t think that would actually reduce redshirting since it would be more favorable to redshirt if the player isn’t going to get minutes. Updated Wednesday, January 25 2023 @ 4:05:57 pm PST

#19594	01/25/2023 6:27:42 pm	Feb 14th, 2030
kauffdaddy Joined: 11/30/2020 Posts: 693 Inactive	I have no idea how much of a pain it would be to program into the game, or even if it already is somewhat, but I'd vote a big YES to playing time directly affecting player development. Updated Wednesday, January 25 2023 @ 6:28:04 pm PST

#19595	01/26/2023 5:13:34 am	Feb 14th, 2030
TavesSoul Joined: 06/25/2020 Posts: 149 Nazareth Golden Flyers IV.8	Honestly, I'm not really sure redshirting needs a change. I think it's working as intended. You can't redshirt every 4 or 5-star without penalty, and the 3-stars or lower option is available for everyone. It gives you the best window for your peak performance from most of your players, and there is a strategic element to the game for 4/5-star guys. Like the other guys mentioned, I'm actually really happy that Hardwood doesn't mirror real-life in a lot of ways. Makes the game more fun/challenging. My biggest concern has always been the way prestige works (mostly that it doesn't degrade over time) and how that factors into recruitment, but even that I've softened on over time.

#19596	01/26/2023 6:49:38 am	Feb 14th, 2030
imad0211 Joined: 03/23/2021 Posts: 106 Inactive	Lets have a vote of ideas for this game Updated Thursday, January 26 2023 @ 8:48:26 am PST

#19597	01/26/2023 8:47:51 am	Feb 14th, 2030
imad0211 Joined: 03/23/2021 Posts: 106 Inactive	Vote yes or no for these changes to the game note I cannot guarantee any of these will happen. Just want to see what the community thinks. https://forms.gle/maKztKfSWU1Jn56q9

#19607	01/29/2023 8:59:55 am	Feb 23rd, 2030
electriceel883 Joined: 06/07/2021 Posts: 134 Wisconsin Badgers II.1	I think unlimited redshirting is fine, but that whatever the penalty is for 4 and 5 stars, its clearly not enough to make anyone pause in what they're doing, so if the penalty was significantly increased, seems like that would add more strategy, so that would be cool also. Or what El Jefe said about a limit over a timeframe. I also like the "playing time-SI" thing. Updated Sunday, January 29 2023 @ 9:06:39 am PST

#19609	01/30/2023 8:16:09 am	Feb 28th, 2030
lmartins6746 Joined: 02/26/2020 Posts: 250 North Greenville Crusaders IV.3	I don't know that I agree with the premise but I have said this before. I don't believe in artificial restrictions. We should address the root causes instead. 1. Freshman are simply not good enough to get playing time. Even the 5 stars are rarely in the top 5-7 players. 2. If we redshirt we are guaranteed 5 years. Solutions: 1. Blue chip Freshman should be better 2. Allow anyone that has completed 4 years to be drafted. Will you redshirt your blue chipper if he is very likely to leave after year 4? Probably not. Yes that may leave some teams without a full roster...I guess they may have to not redshirt someone in the incoming class to make up for it.

#19658	02/13/2023 3:47:24 pm	Oct 8th, 2030
Ced Joined: 02/14/2018 Posts: 455 Indiana Hoosiers IV.5	Rescinding some of this suggestion due to Principia's '30 D2 National Championship consisting of no RS starters, no RS 6th man, no...nobody on the roster was a RS at all. Many strategies available. Shout out to the Panthers and congrats to Radman.